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GRISHAM

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There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness. Dalai Lama
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Near Death Experiences - Fact, Fiction or Unexplained?

Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:33 AM EST
religion
By Grisham
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Near death experiences have been reported worldwide. They are a fairly common occurrence. In fact, while I sat at my father's side, the nurse told my sister and I that all of the nurses in the ward believed that those who were near death could hear people who talked to them. When I asked why, she explained that all of them had seen people whose hearts had stopped or been in a coma come back and give detailed accounts of things that had happened to them when near death. She said it should have been impossible for them to give such accounts.

My wife also told me a story of her grandmother who had a stroke. She was taken to the hospital and put on life support (much like my father after his heart attack and subsequent heart surgery) and when she went in to visit, my wife told her grandmother she was pregnant and that she needed to come back to see her great-grandchild.

She did come back and upon awakening, she asked the nurse to see her grandchild.

While my father laid in bed on life-support - as his body continued to fail him - people came and went to say their goodbyes. My aunt (his sister) who we rarely see because she lives out of town came down to visit and when she took his hand and told him she loved him, his heart rate went up and he nearly suffered another heart attack. The same happened when my mother visited him. After that, we were no longer allowed to touch or talk in his presence in case it would worsen his condition.

It's common for people who have near death experiences (from here on out referred to as NDE) to describe a white light, angels, deceased loved ones and a feeling of peace and love among other things. It also doesn't seem to matter whether they were religious or not and in many cases, it changes the survivors life forever.

Fairly new studies have tried to explain away NDE experiences. Some say that C02 levels in the blood rise upon cardiac arrest and that can produce the symptoms usually associated with NDE. Sometimes, mountain climbers suffer NDE-like experiences at higher altitudes, which adds credence to that theory. Others research points to the brain trying desperately to make sense of the sensations and trauma of impending death.

Others believe that NDE's are a result of our consciousness, spirit or soul coming un-tethered from our physical bodies or brain.

From  a National Geographic article that explored the link between C02 levels and NDE experiences:

The study is among the first to find a direct link between carbon dioxide in the blood and near-death experiences, or NDEs, said Christopher French, a psychologist at the Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit of the University of London, who was not involved in the new research.

The hospital study bolsters previous lab work done in the 1950s that found "the effects of hypercarbia [abnormally high levels of CO2 in the blood] were very similar to what we would now recognise as NDEs," French said in an email.

The research also supports the argument that anything that disinhibits the brain—damages the brain's ability to manage impulses—can produce near-death sensations, he said. Physical brain injury, drugs, and delirium have all been associated with a disinhibited state, and CO2 overload is another potential trigger.

Still, not all scientists are convinced: "The one difficulty in arguing that CO2 is the cause is that in cardiac arrests, everybody has high CO2 but only 10 percent have NDEs," said neuropsychiatrist Peter Fenwick of the Institute of Psychiatry at Kings College London.

What's more, in heart attack patients, Fenwick said, "there is no coherent cerebral activity which could support consciousness, let alone an experience with the clarity of an NDE."

The main alternative is that near-death experiences are "evidence of consciousness becoming separated from the physical substrate of the brain, possibly even a glimpse of an afterlife," the University of London's French noted.

But for him, at least, "the latest results argue strongly against such a hypothesis."

 

As you can see, science is trying to grapple with the phenomenon known as NDE. While the research doesn't seem to be conclusive either way, some scientists are convinced that NDE's have been explained by science.

Another interesting article on NDE's can be found on the BBC:

 

One of the most frequently reported features of near-death experiences is an awareness of being dead - but the researchers say these feelings are not limited to near-death experiences.

There is a condition called "Cotard" - or "walking corpse" syndrome, where a person believes they are dead. It has been seen following trauma and during the advanced stages of typhoid and multiple sclerosis.

Out-of-body experiences, where people feel they are floating above themselves, are also commonly reported.

But Swiss researchers found such experiences could be artificially induced by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain that plays a role in perception and awareness.

The "tunnel of light" sensation reported by those who believe they are having a near-death experience can also be artificially induced.

Pilots flying at G-force can sometimes experience "hypertensive syncope" which causes tunnel-like peripheral or even central visual loss for up to eight seconds.

And a US study suggested the light at the end of the tunnel can be explained by poor blood and oxygen supply to the eye.

The feelings of bliss and euphoria, meanwhile, can be recreated with drugs such as ketamine and amphetamine.

The paper also suggests the action of noradrenaline, a hormone released by the mid-brain, can evoke positive emotions, hallucinations and other features of the near-death experience.

Writing in the journal Trends in Cognitive Science, the researchers say: "Taken together, the scientific experience suggests that all aspects of near-death experience have a neuro-physiological or psychological basis."

Dr Sam Parnia, director of resuscitation research at the State University of New York and author of What Happens When We Die said: "Every experience, whether near-death or otherwise such as depression, happiness and love is mediated by the brain.

"In fact many experiences share the same brain regions, and so it is not unusual to be able to reproduce them.

"Discovering those areas or reproducing them, doesn't imply the experience is not real. By the same token, we wouldn't say love, happiness and depression are not real.

"Furthermore many people accurately report "seeing" events taking place at a time when the brain doesn't function (such as during cardiac arrest). These cannot be explained by brain changes, since the brain had shut down and 'flatlined'.

"While seeming real to those who experience them, near death experiences provide a glimpse of what it is like to die for the rest of us".

 

And it may be that humans aren't the only ones who experience near NDE's  or who have spiritual experiences either. Some research suggests that many animals may experience the same sorts of things as humans do when near death. The difference being that they can't verbalize it like humans can.

In an effort to understand NDE's in humans, some researchers have begun to study other animals. Here's what one article had to say about the matter:

 

"In humans, we know that if we disrupt the (brain) region where vision, sense of motion, orientation in the Earth's gravitational field, and knowing the position of our body all come together, then out-of-body experiences can be caused literally by the flip of a switch," he said. "There is absolutely no reason to believe it is any different for a dog, cat, or primate’s brain."

Other mammals also probably have near-death experiences comparable to those reported by certain humans, he believes. Such people often say they saw a light and felt as though they were moving down a tunnel.

The tunnel phenomenon "is caused by the eye's susceptibility to the low blood flow that occurs with fainting or cardiac arrest," he said. "As blood flow diminishes, vision fails peripherally first. There is no reason to believe that other animals are any different from us."

Nelson added, "What they make of the tunnel is another matter."

The light aspect of near-death experiences can be explained by how the visual system defines REM (rapid eye movement) consciousness, he believes.

"In fact," he said, "the link between REM and the physiological crises causing near-death experience are most strongly linked in animals, like cats and rats, which we can study in the laboratory."

Mystical experiences -- moments that inspire a sense of mystery and wonderment -- arise within the limbic system, he said. When specific parts of this system are removed from animal brains, mind-altering drugs like LSD have no effect.

Since other animals, such as non-human primates, horses, cats and dogs, also possess similar brain structures, it is possible that they too experience mystical moments, and may even have a sense of spiritual oneness, according to Nelson.

As you can see, research is still ongoing when it comes to NDE's. Some believe it is a spiritual or religious experience, while others firmly believe that it can all be explained using natural science. For some it's easy to believe in NDE's, especially if you happen to believe in an afterlife, ghosts or other supernatural phenomenon. For others, it's much more difficult.

One thing is for certain though - we'll all get to find out the truth of the matter at some point.

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Grisham

Just some research and writing I've been working on to keep myself busy. I hope you enjoyed it and your comments are always greatly appreciated. As always, thanks for reading.

  • 12 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 AM EST
PonGoad

Hi Grisham...Welcome Back

I do not know some of the terminology that you used in your article, and I don't think you addressed it (maybe you did), but one area we need to consider for NDE is Extra Censory Perception (ESP). A person may be more suseptible to having NDE if they have experienced ESP. It may sound a little far fetched, but it is an area to explore when researching NDE.

Sorry, Grisham...I apologize for jumping ahead of the comments below me. No one had posted in your article yet when I hit reply. After I posted mine, they were there.

Pon

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:54 AM EST
Grisham

No worries, Pon. I find all the comments eventually. :)

ESP is another interesting subject. The thing with NDE's is that scientists wonder why more people don't have them. However, if we think about ourselves dreaming, do all of us remember our dreams? Most of us forget them once we awaken. Some of us have the ability to remember more of them than others. Either way, it makes for an interesting discussion.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:21 AM EST
Buckeye Voter

Lack of oxygen to the brain can cause hallucinations. This isn't a mystery.

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:07 PM EST
landspirit

This is truly a fascinating subject. Great seed! I had a near death experience. It was profound. I found God. I did not see anything really but a beautiful warm light. And within was God. I have never felt so loved in all my life. I realized that our definition and understandint of love is minute compared to the reality of love. Our brains seem unable to completely understand it. It was an unconditional love, something I had never known. The power of that love is immense even from humans, so the power of it from God was extraordinary.

Could what happened be explained by understanding the effects of near death on the human body? Probably. Yet we don't even know what life is. Until we can define life, how can we define death? This is a question I have wanted to ask for a long time: when people see loved ones that have died, what do they look like? Do they look like they did when they were young? Do they look like they did when you last saw them alive?

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:51 PM EST
Rank on Rank

It's common for people who have near death experiences (from here on out referred to as NDE) to describe a white light, angels, deceased loved ones and a feeling of peace and love among other things. It also doesn't seem to matter whether they were religious or not and in many cases, it changes the survivors life forever.

Those are the earmarks of a genuine NDE.

Fairly new studies have tried to explain away NDE experiences. Some say that C02 levels in the blood rise upon cardiac arrest and that can produce the symptoms usually associated with NDE. Sometimes, mountain climbers suffer NDE-like experiences at higher altitudes, which adds credence to that theory. Others research points to the brain trying desperately to make sense of the sensations and trauma of impending death.

Mountain climbers see "white light, angels, deceased loved ones" at high altitudes? Who knew?

Others research points to the brain trying desperately to make sense of the sensations and trauma of impending death.

Yes, like the brain tries desperately to make sense of other agonizing pain. Does that ever happen to anybody? During child-birth, or while being tortured. do people report NDEs? No.

These attempts to explain away after-death-experiences, or ADE's as I like to call them, are just ridiculous. Real ADE's are evidences of an afterlife, or at the very least, evidences of consciousness after clinical death, which are happening with such undeniable regularity even 'science' is forced to take them seriously.

I have no idea how science could explain such a phenomenon or how it would happen.

Doesn't seem as if science can explain(away) this phenomena, they can only report it and speculate.

Some research suggests that many animals may experience the same sorts of things as humans do when near death. The difference being that they can't verbalize it like humans can.

Exactly how do researches know that an animal has had, or is having, an NDE? By their REMs? Laughable.

and the physiological crises causing near-death experience are most strongly linked in animals,

This presupposes that NDE's are caused by "physiological crises", not actual clinical death.

For some it's easy to believe in NDE's, especially if you happen to believe in an afterlife, ghosts or other supernatural phenomenon.

It is for me, I wonder why. But I think near death experience is a misnomer. After-death-experience would be more accurate.

Grisham, I'm very glad you're investigating this subject. Thanks for bringing the topic of NDE/ADE's to the forefront on NV.

  • 4 votes
#1.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:05 PM EST
Shebow

Buckeye Voter, the only problem with relegating NDE's to hallucinations are the reports from the patient of what was going on around them, what people were saying, etc. Especially those who report what was happening in real time from a position that seems to be looking down at the room and the people in it. That's a mighty weird hallucination.

  • 5 votes
#1.6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:50 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

Grisham:

I pray you and the family are holding up as well as can be expected.

My wife says she had a NDE, and believes in them very much.

I've been close to death so many times, that I don't know if I ever had a NDE or not. I know that I have been taken from deaths doorstep and healed. I know that when I was knocked out by being thrown into a pool's steps and landing on my head, the people there who saw it say I came out the pool on my own but not conscious. I don't remember except that I hit the second step, was lying on bottom of the pool and then was standing out of the pool. People said my eyes had rolled back and only the whites were showing. It ending up causing a massive subdural hemotoma and they had to drain the bleeding from my brain to save me.

I do remember having a feeling of floating above my body and looking down at myself in the pool.

Very strange, I hadn't thought of that in almost forty years. ;~)) ;~))

  • 9 votes
#1.7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:03 PM EST
American Spirit

Especially those who report what was happening in real time from a position that seems to be looking down at the room and the people in it.

We can separate our focus from the physical part of us so this makes sense to me. We can but few do.

That one could then view other aspects of the world around us while during an NDE isn't far fetched. There's things around us all the time we cannot see, such as those that can see sound. How would the world look if you could only perceive atoms? How about only molecules? How about radio waves? Perhaps bubbles of consciousness of past people parade around in our clouds ; )

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:18 PM EST
Grisham

Mountain climbers see "white light, angels, deceased loved ones" at high altitudes? Who knew?

Bright lights and tunnel vision, which is a lot like NDE experiences. Not the angels and things. :)

Exactly how do researches know that an animal has had, or is having, an NDE? By their REMs? Laughable.

You're welcome. I've been meaning to write this article for some time but haven't gotten the chance. I'm glad you enjoyed it, Rank.

  • 6 votes
#1.9 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:35 PM EST
scar_tissue

Others research points to the brain trying desperately to make sense of the sensations and trauma of impending death.

I'm gonna go w/ that one. After all, one's brain always attempts to rapidly process alien experience, & most ppl only die once, so it'd be quite alien an experience.

During child-birth, or while being tortured. do people report NDEs?

Can't compare something as insignificant as childbirth to impending death (unless, of course, one has the misfortune to be dying in childbirth). There are plenty of things a lot more traumatic &/or painful than a relatively uncomplicated childbirth, & if you experience those, eventually childbirth falls in the dust or seems like a cakewalk in comparison. I wouldn't call it a serious contender.

I'd even throw out the torture suggestion (unless, of course, again, one is on the verge of death from that) b/c it's too subjective. Something other than torture could top the scale of 1-10 pain level hit parade for some ppl. Some have incredibly high pain thresholds &/or incredibly resiliant minds.

Everyone experiences certain degrees of pain &/or trauma in life, but you don't die every day. Seems reasonable that nothing but dying would cause an NDE.

All death is basically *brain failure* b/c one's brain controls everything else & the control center is shutting down. While perhaps, at the same time, frantically looking for a junction box to cross over to & halt the process. Like how the brain tries to compensate for loss of function by assigning the lost part's duties to a new sector. So it could be physiological.

Beyond that physical issue w/ impending death, maybe buried deep in the subconscious is the knowledge that it's become futile. We think; therefore, we are. And likely automatically keep doing so until it's physically impossible. I don't find it too far-fetched that ppl might be *wondering* until the last second.

But I think near death experience is a misnomer. After-death-experience would be more accurate.

But after death....there's nothing left for the brain to do, so I wouldn't term it *after-death experience*, either. Whatever happens, happens b4.

  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:45 PM EST
Pat-#@!&!#@

I don't find it too far-fetched that ppl might be *wondering* until the last second.

It was reported in an article that when Steve Jobs was dying his family was around his bedside and observed his last words which were "wow, ... wow, ... wow".

  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:18 AM EST
Rank on Rank

Seems reasonable that nothing but dying would cause an NDE.

Scar tissue,

Then why doesn't everyone who is dying have that experience? Or everyone who has been resusitated?

So it could be physiological.

And it could also be other than physiological. Why would people accurately report knowing of what was going on, (conversations, for example) which took place when they were actually clinically dead?

You just choose to believe that which supports your worldview even when it isn't correct.

But after death....there's nothing left for the brain to do, so I wouldn't term it *after-death experience*, either

If it takes place after clinical death, it is an after-death-experience. No getting around it. But you are correct when you say after death there is nothing for the brain to do. Yet, there is the experience of consciousness after clinical death. So it is obviously is not the product of anything physiological.

Whatever happens, happens b4.

I understand you need to believe that. But again, that wouldn't account for people knowing what took place when they were already dead, meaning, while there was no brain activity.

  • 3 votes
#1.12 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:24 AM EST
scar_tissue

Then why doesn't everyone who is dying have that experience?

I think it was Grish who referred to the fact that ppl don't always recall dreams. I have a friend who insists he never dreams, against contrary scientific evidence (like, charting REM in sleep studies). So perhaps *everyone* does, but those who *come back* found it traumatic enough to forget.

You just choose to believe that which supports your worldview even when it isn't correct.

Dude, chill out on the confrontational thing. Never even thought much about it till I saw Grish's interesting article. Just musing out loud on the *maybes*.

I understand you need to believe that.

No, you don't *understand*, actually. I don't *need to believe* anything. It just seems logical to me. Of course I'm very R-brained, so I'm used to my brand of logic not flying at times.

that wouldn't account for people knowing what took place when they were already dead, meaning, while there was no brain activity.

*No brain activity* really is a little different from *dead*. Obviously if someone doesn't die & isn't the proverbial turnip after, it's more of a temp brain *hiccup* in processing. Something physiological's going on that machines are, as of yet, unable to measure & evaluate. I know someone who underwent a 17-hr surgery to repair an aortic anyeurism who underwent clinical death on the table 4x....10 yrs ago....& was successfully resuscitated all 4x, w/ no brain damage at all after coming out of the coma, who essentially *lost* those 3 mos & doesn't remember a thing about any of it after the initial heart attack. We just don't know enough about how the brain works yet to make a blanket *everyone* kind of call. Just sayin'.

  • 5 votes
#1.13 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:59 PM EST
Rank on Rank

Dude, chill out on the confrontational thing. Never even thought much about it till I saw Grish's interesting article. Just musing out loud on the *maybes*.

Scar tissue,

Confrontational is kind of my style. But I apologize if I was too aggressive in my response, I didn't realize you were just "musing on the maybees". Have fun!

  • 3 votes
#1.14 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:35 PM EST
Reply
lost in America-3937007

You are right about one thing, we will all experience it one day. I, personally do not believe near death experiences are anything other than a hallucination, sometimes including a person's belief in the supernatural, however since believers and non-believers seem to experience similar experiences, I believe it is the body that produces these sensations, rather than personal beliefs.

  • 8 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:56 AM EST
Grisham

Hi LA. From the research that I've done, I'd say there is a good possibility that it is completely natural. However, experiences like mrsrachelm's below and those of the nurse who said they described actions in the room while comatose leave a niggle of doubt IMO.

  • 7 votes
#2.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:39 AM EST
Reply
Kate In Greensboro

Good article Grisham.

I had a medical crisis a few years ago during which I had some wild mental issues - hallucinations, paranoid delusions, hyper mania, so I know that the body can make the mind perceive all kinds of things. I'm comfortable explaining NDE stories as simply that, the mind reacting to the body. If they are more, including something supernatural or spiritual, it will be a surprise.

  • 5 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:15 AM EST
Grisham

Agreed, Kate. The brain is something we don't fully understand. It's a fascinating subject though. Thanks for stopping by. :)

  • 4 votes
#3.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:40 AM EST
Reply
Night Hawk

When I was 9 years old, I died on the operating table,for how long was I dead ? Don't really know. I didn't have the all white bright tunnel at the end with voices calling towards it or angles. yet I did have this

There was this rope, I was in a dark or dimly lit room ,yes there was a tunnel, no bright lights coming from it or voices. ow voices yes I heard them, there was a rope above me came down from a hole above, voices calling me by my nick name saying grab the rope grab the rope, I tried, a few times and could not reach it finally I did and climbed up the rope....All I remember

Did it change my life ? No. Did it then or now make me an uncompromising beleiver? No. Do I talk about it with other people? no. Do I still have doubts about what happened ? Yes. Do I believe that this happened to me ? Yes.

Grisham

Thank you again for a great article. They do bring out the questions I ask myself many times.

  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 AM EST
Grisham

I'm glad that you found value here, Night Hawk. Most NDE's that I've read about have similarities but aren't always the same. Thank you for sharing your story.

  • 4 votes
#4.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:41 AM EST
Reply
mrsrachelm

Well, I've had two NDE's. One was during surgery while in Switzerland. The staff were all speaking a Swiss-German dialect which I do not speak. During my NDE, I hovered up in the corner of the room looking down at everything as it happened. Once I was revived and awoke in ICU, I told the doctors where everyone stood and every single word that was said by the various people there and exactly what happened. So unless I learned an entire foreign language for the short time I was dead.....I can't ascribe it to mere hallucinations, etc.

  • 12 votes
Reply#5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:25 AM EST
Grisham

Hi mrsrachelm,

Experiences like yours (and I'm glad you remain with us) are the one thing I couldn't find any research on. I have no idea how science could explain such a phenomenon or how it would happen. The nurses in the ICU described similar experiences to me of peple describing in minute detail things that were going on around them while they said they hovered near their body.

Thank you so much for sharing your unique and powerful experience with s. I greatly appreciate it.

  • 7 votes
#5.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:44 AM EST
Pat N

mrsrachelm -

All I can say is..."WOW". I imagine that was an experience that will stick with you for the rest of your life. I imagine you think about it often. I'm curious if you remember any of the language translations from that operating room?

I've had....something. I don't know if it was a "near death experience" since I was only listed in critical condition for a day, and it wasn't nearly as fascinating as yours, but it was indeed, odd and it's the thing that convinced me that there is such a thing as Guardian Angels.

I was driving down that road at the speed limit of 50. An oncoming commercial truck carrying a large tank of live bait made a left hand turn into my path. I hit the side of the truck straight on, wasn't wearing a seatbelt and my head flew into the windshield. It took two reconstructive surgeries, 128 stitches and 43 staples to put my forehead back together.

I didn't even know I was hurt. I remember getting out of the vehicle and there was a bunch of gawkers standing around, staring at me in horror. (had a ton of blood on me, I guess). I then apparently collapsed.

Next thing I remember is a lady was down on the ground, had my head in her lap and was assuring me that everything was going to be OK. I can picture every detail of her to this day. Red sweater. Jeans. Short, dark hair. High cheekbones. A gentle smile. Thin, but not overly thin.

After the paramedics got there and stabalized me, I asked them to thank the lady in the red sweater for taking care of me until they arrived. They looked at me confused and asked what I meant. I told then how she'd comforted me in her lap until they arrived and then turned me over to them. There response was: "There was no one else around you when we got here. You were laying on the road alone."

No bright lights. Not nearly as cool as yours. I never really "died". So this might fall into the hallucination category mentioned in the article...who knows? But all I know is that it was real enough that I'm convinced to this day that she was real, she existed, she had a physical presence and she comforted me.

  • 6 votes
#5.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:58 AM EST
mrsrachelm

I don't remember what was said now as this was many years ago. I do know that there was no "translating" happening while it was going on. I heard them speak and knew what was being said. I didn't "hear" a language that seemed foreign to me at the time. I couldn't repeat the language upon awaking either. I could only tell them in my language what they said in theirs. I no longer understood that language once I was revived. It once again became foreign to me.

  • 7 votes
#5.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:11 AM EST
mrsrachelm

My second NDE was entirely different.

I had been having multiple surgeries in rapid succession and during one my body had a horrid over reaction to the anesthesia and I flat lined.

At first the experience was quite gruesome as I struggled to stay in my body. I was slipping thru it and out and was struggling to grab onto organs and bones etc anything I could grasp to not slip out. It was this feeling of falling and trying to catch yourself. This was what was happening during the downward spiral my body was taking just before I flat lined. I know this because while all this was going on I could hear what everyone was saying etc. It only took a few seconds before I was then out and everything changed.

Now I found myself hovering over land. The field below me was the perfect shade of green. The grasses looked soft and wonderful. The sky above me was an absolute cloudless perfect shade of deep blue. The colors were sooooo vibrant and the epitome of what each color was supposed to be.

It was neither overly warm or overly cool. In fact temperature didn't exist. It was perfect comfort.

There was no sun in the sky yet everything was perfectly illuminated. Not too bright but absolutely clean and clear and bright. I could see for what seems like miles and miles in any direction.

I began to move forward. It was not something I intended to do. It was just happening. I had no choice or control over it. I looked ahead and saw a stream or small river running across the horizon. It's waters were so stunningly clean and pure that it literally glistened and sparkled. It was a perfect stream. On the other side was a single tree. It was large. It seemed to have the look of a giant Maple tree or something similar. It too was the absolutely perfect expression of itself. That's the only way I can describe it. Everything I saw was the absolutely perfect expression of what it was whether it was an object or a color or what have you.

I did not have a physical body that I saw. I existed as an individual being that was wholly recognizable as being "me" but I was absolutely free of physical mass of any kind.

Anyway, I was picking up speed as I moved towards the stream and the tree which stood on the other side. I was so surrounded by beauty it was wonderful. I knew somehow that if I crossed the stream and reached that tree I would not have to go back. I also knew that I had no choice. I would cross the stream and reach the tree regardless of whether I wanted to or not. Once a person gets to that point, your chances...your choices are over. Anyway, I actually -wanted- to reach that tree in the worst way, lol. I stretched out my "hand' and tried to urge myself forward faster. I WANTED to get to that tree!

I almost made it. I was so close! The stream was just slightly ahead of me. It's sparkling dancing water dazzled the eye. The perfect tree loomed ahead. Just a little more.......

Then I awoke in ICU, in agonizing pain, vomiting and hooked up to every possible monitor that ever existed. I WAS PISSED OFF! I WAS CRESTFALLEN! I mourned my loss bitterly. I mean it was genuine mourning as though I had lost a close loved one.

To this very day I remember that place as vividly as ever. I remember those colors, that stream, that tree. I remember experiencing the true essence and perfect existence of what color is, what grass is, what water is, etc.

That experience was actually more profound to me than my first experience.

  • 8 votes
#5.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:43 AM EST
MoonCrow

Very interesting mrsrachelm ... VERY interesting.

  • 5 votes
#5.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:11 PM EST
landspirit

Very interesting mrsrachelm ... VERY interesting

I second that. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I wonder if that tree and stream had any meaning in your life, prior to your near death?

  • 5 votes
#5.6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:00 PM EST
Miss_Diagnosed

Pat N's story reminds me of when I was a little girl. I had chicken pox twice... and the second time it was super bad. My mother told me I had 106 fever and they took me to the emergency room.

I remember talking to this really tall, tanned gentleman in a black cowboy hat and denim jeans. He had a black button up shirt with these silver buttons. He kept telling me that I had to hold still... I guess I had punched a doctor and a nurse when they tried to help me cool down. I remember his smile, he had very white teeth.

The only other experiences I've had are the two times I had surgeries done I woke up in the middle of them. I have a high metabolism for drugs. I woke up during my knee surgery and just looked at all the tendons and meat (I had to have three ligaments replaced) and could only really think how odd it all looked on my leg (like it was a picture pasted on my leg and not open for all the world to see). And then during oral surgery I woke up with all these things in my mouth and the dentist just about had a heart attack. I remember him asking me if we should hold off on the rest and me telling him that if he had already started, he better finish or I was going to rearrange his teeth.

My dad has done the same thing... He has multiple melyoma and during his vertibrae replacement surgery, they had him filleted open like a fish from shoulder to opposite hip and twisted open to get at the front and backside of his spine... he said he woke up in the middle of it and could just feel how "wrong" it was to be opened up. He couldnt lift his head to look over his shoulder, but he remembers fingering the nurse's pants until she looked down to see him awake and started screaming.

Freaked the medical staff right out.

Those are kind of the opposite of NDEs... since I have a hard time letting go of consciousness and force myself awake during surgeries. I'm not sure its 100% my metabolism or more like 50% stubborness :).

I do know that the nurses never believe how much anesthesia it takes to put me or my father out for the count.

  • 2 votes
#5.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST
Reply
hugh b

there are things beyond the realm of human understanding and defy explanation

the movie Avatar tells a beautiful story, the interconnectedness of everything, that is my preference

rather than seeing the universe as being separate elements, to me we are all part of everything, and in a fashion everything is a part of us

and for me, and I've had a very amazing experience in this regard, love is part of the whole and is a force or element in its own right and represents a dimension we don't comprehend even exists

a soul that loves and has been loved exists, endures, and evolves in ways we will only know after our physical lives no longer restrain it...

  • 5 votes
Reply#6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:29 AM EST
Grisham

Hi Hugh,

I've been doing research on reincarnation as well. Both NDE's and reincarnation have some significant mysteries surrounding them. I do agree tht we're all bond together in one way or another.

  • 4 votes
#6.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:45 AM EST
Reply
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Grisham: Another thing we can "take to the bank" is that during the process of dying, there is a feeling of peace that comes over the whole body as it shuts down.

If that is due to physiological changes only, or something more is besides one point. The point is not doctrinal. It is this. That those of us who lost ones near and dear to us may take comfort and seek refuge in knowing that their last conscious expereinces are ones of peace and tranquility.

Peace abides. Enoch.

  • 8 votes
Reply#7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:30 AM EST
Grisham

That those of us who lost ones near and dear to us may take comfort and seek refuge in knowing that their last conscious expereinces are ones of peace and tranquility.

That's a comforting thought and one I sincerely hope is true, Enoch. Thank you for your wise words. Your experience as a Chaplain would far outstrip my own knowledge of the subject. You do a wonderful and needed service, my friend.

  • 3 votes
#7.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:48 AM EST
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Grisham: We all do what we can. Nothing less is acceptable.

Peace and Blessings. Enoch.

  • 3 votes
#7.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:58 AM EST
Reply
grump in NM

I have thought about this issue many, many times over the years and have done my research, as have you, Grisham. I don't have an answer. One day, I will know.

  • 3 votes
Reply#8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:51 AM EST
Grisham

Hi Grump! Indeed, we will all find out at some point.

  • 2 votes
#8.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:18 AM EST
grump in NM

I had a funny thought a while ago: I may not know about what NDE's are all about for very long -- maybe only a few seconds. But, I will at least know.

  • 5 votes
#8.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:20 AM EST
scar_tissue

Well, fat lot of good that does the rest of us, grump....quit being so selfish & share :P

Now I have visions of Madeline Kahn singing that o sweet mystery of life I've finally found you number LOL

  • 3 votes
#8.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 PM EST
Reply
samenslow

I have always felt it sad that things associated with NDE or the subject of parapsychology do not receive scientific attention. Most research is done by those wanting to prove or disapprove a previously held position. By scientific I do not necessarily mean measurements and weights, but an application of scientific methods to the observations of what is happening.

I have had a near death experience and remember three people standing next to by bed - no light or anything else. But I have no idea of what happened. I do know that from that time, I have had no fear of Death itself (illness&pain yes).

I tend to believe in reincarnation, another field seldom studies although it has been used by some in the psychological community (age regression) as a therapeutic tool. But, again, this work doesn't rely on reincarnation being true - only on the fact the patient believes it true.

There are many things in the Kosmos that we know exist but cannot prove. Often we cannot express in words certain forces we know affect our daily lives, but we know they exist. I am not speaking about God because we could not understand God if He sat down next to us, but of forces (see how hard this is to explain in words).

  • 5 votes
Reply#9 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:56 AM EST
Grisham

Reincarnation is another one that is fascinating. I've done a lot of reading on that subject as well. Thanks for the great comment, Sam.

  • 3 votes
#9.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:19 AM EST
Tim S.-560036

Same,

I look at it from the scientific theory of 11 dimensions in quantum mechanics, some come out of NDEs saying 12 dimensions. I have no problem with this given the level of ignorance of the human animal and the infancy of scientific understanding. This body is confined to the 3 spacial dimensions and the shadow of a 4th, time. I know this does not agree totally with the perception scientists in this area use, but as a scientist I know that our early understanding is typically limited and seriously over simplified.

So NDEs are hard to study when we approach them from our 3+ dimensional perspective. I think of our human existence as an 11 dimensional standing wave and death as the release of our waveform from that standing wave. An NDE is just the temporary weakening of and subsequent re-establishment of that standing wave. But during the disintegration phase, we get to experience the universe in all dimensions. When we come back, our physical, standing wave form is not capable of retaining an 11 dimensions perspective on the universe. So we lose that insight. For some it fades slowly. For others it is instantaneous and everywhere in between.

This raises the question for me of "How do we study something effectively that is so far beyond our current understanding of the universe?". I anticipate that it will take another 100 to 1000 years before science can catch up to human experience in this area. That is the limitation of our 3+ dimensional understanding.

  • 3 votes
#9.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:27 PM EST
samenslow

Socrates says in one of the Dialogues that all knowledge is but the soul remembering.

Jung developed his theory of arch-types again based on something past, a collective subconscious (he was inspired by the Nag Hammadi Libary as he bought one of the manuscripts on the black market). However, he doesn't, I believe, express if he believes the collective comes from a previous historical cycle (Atlantis type civilization) or from a common "other world" experience.

  • 1 vote
#9.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:32 PM EST
Shebow

Tim S., I appreciate your perspective on the dimensional/perceptual aspect of this. I took Experimental Psych about 25 years ago at the same time I was helping another prof in the psych dept who was trying to design a way to test psychic phenomenon. The guy teaching the Experimental class believed anything paranormal was bs, knew of my involvement with the other prof's work and would tease/goad me occasionally. During one of his goads, I suggested that the inability to prove or disprove the existence of psychic phenomenon was only as good as the tools we currently have to measure such things. Made the guy beam and say to me, "Touche." Fifteen years later, there are TV shows like GhostHunters and a host of devices that have begin to record and measure paranormal activity.

  • 2 votes
#9.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:08 PM EST
Reply
Kearney Outlaw

I'm having a near life experience. Does that count?

Beyond wild anecdotes and programs on the (H)Mystery Channel, is this even debated in serious circles? The brain does some pretty amazing things. We're never consciously aware of much of it. Recall and interpretation of events while unconscious and/or under extreme stress produces some pretty bizarre "memories".

Do LSD and see God. Stress your body to extreme limits and... see God.

  • 5 votes
Reply#10 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:07 AM EST
Grisham

It does count, KO. LOL

It is in fact being researched by various scientific institutes. There aren't too many NDE experiences that result in seeing God either. In the majority of cases, it is a bright light or being able to describe what is going on in the room while being supposedly unconscious.

  • 4 votes
#10.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:16 AM EST
Kearney Outlaw

Well, I never saw God on any of my trips, either. I was speaking metaphorically.

Always grant money for something, I guess!

  • 1 vote
#10.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:23 AM EST
Kate In Greensboro

There aren't too many NDE experiences that result in seeing God either.

In the book "Embraced by the Light," author Betty J. Eadie interprets her experience of seeing Jesus as something along the lines of "I believe the spirit is presented to us in whatever manner we would recognize it" - she "knew" she was seeing Jesus, she said, but was certain that was because Jesus is who/what she would have expected to see. I probably haven't paraphrased it well, but I hope the point comes through.

It has stuck with me. My take-away was that love is the almighty; how we perceive it is based on our religion/faith frame. And when we die, it is that love/almighty that we see.

  • 2 votes
#10.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:22 PM EST
American Spirit

it is a bright light

You mean light in Matrix? ; ) Big symbolic parallel there.

I believe it's simply your awareness traveling back down through the chemical then atomic field. Other dimensions are not 'up' above us. They are down under our layers of matter as we know it.

Though some can 'see' the room in which their body lives, that room is simply a bunch of atoms when one looks really close. As one would travel through that layer, they could still 'see' within that layer, thus the room.

Perhaps our individual mental evolution levels have something to do with who remembers them and who does not. I wonder if anyone has ever did a study using hypnosis to see if others who experienced a near death event might have had a NDE but simply cannot consciously remember it.

I read a lot of them a few years ago. As with religions, if you find commonalities between them, it's probably has some truth. There were some that actually "jumped" their conscious part out of the body as a life-ending event was about to occur. They remember watching it but not being there or feeling it.

So that leads me to question what happens to those memories of pain the former body experiences? Perhaps they hover around unattached to anything giving us what some would call 'ghosts'.

  • 3 votes
#10.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:51 PM EST
grump in NM

I'm having a near life experience. Does that count?

That's really funny. I had the same thought and was going to post it but read on and found that KO beat me to it. Heh, heh.

  • 5 votes
#10.5 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:48 AM EST
Reply
MinnieApolis

Interesting material here. Not sure if you would like if I clipped this to Paranormal Viners or not. Let me know if you would.

  • 2 votes
Reply#11 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:09 AM EST
Grisham

I'd be honored and thank you, Minnie.

  • 3 votes
#11.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST
MinnieApolis

Well, then consider it done. Also FR has been sent.

  • 2 votes
#11.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:29 AM EST
Reply
tesla013

Good article. I always find it funny that science is quick to attempt to explain things that have connections to the supernatural. I was reading there that, this can be explained by that, that can be simulated with this, But perhaps I just missed it but I did not see where the experience could be recreated in full. Folks see something that is for sure. But perhaps the same explanation many use for alien abduction stories can be applied here. The repetition of similar stories leads to more of the same. I believe it can happen. I have read a ton about it. But for me it is the profound change that happens to so many that gives the phenomenon credibility.

  • 3 votes
Reply#12 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:09 AM EST
Grisham

If I were a scientist, it would be the supernatural that would fascinate me the most. I'm mostly an idiot and I've always been drawn to things that can't or haven't yet been explained.

You may be on to something with the abduction stories, although besides the white light, they differ in quite a few areas.

  • 3 votes
#12.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:17 AM EST
tesla013

I have also been fascinated by the unexplained since my youth. Still am, though these days one does not get much careful study on such matters. Instead they make ridiculous television shows. Thank whomever you wish we still have books and folks who write them. Have you ever read about Cayce?

  • 2 votes
#12.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:49 AM EST
Tim S.-560036

Good article. I always find it funny that science is quick to attempt to explain things that have connections to the supernatural.

How is this supernatural? Why could this phenomenon be perfectly natural and obey all the laws of nature? Our ignorance as individuals and a species does not make the unexplained supernatural by default.

Grisham,

As a scientist, it is the unexplained and unknown that fascinates me. I don't know if this is the same as your fascination with the supernatural or not. The basic tenet in my outlook is that everything that occurs in the universe is natural, we are just unaware of the rules and principles that govern those we call supernatural.

  • 5 votes
#12.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:37 PM EST
Grisham

The basic tenet in my outlook is that everything that occurs in the universe is natural, we are just unaware of the rules and principles that govern those we call supernatural.

I agree. Supernatural to me means something natural we have yet to explain.

  • 4 votes
#12.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:23 PM EST
tesla013

Oh my, how is this supernatural? I was unaware I would be required to defend it. Yawn.

Webster New World College 3rd Edition 1989:

supernatural- 1) existing or occurring outside the normal experience or knowledge of man.

Apparently I use the word because it is an apt description of event in question.

  • 2 votes
#12.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:03 AM EST
Reply
MoonCrow

I have not had a near-death experience, but I had an unusual experience when I was very young that makes me feel that I must have lived before.

I would recite Hail Marys in Dutch. It was evident as I learned to talk ... form sentences, and it stayed with me until I was around five years old. I guess most everyone would have thought it was child gibberish, except my great-grandmother remembered her grandmother saying them.

We were not Catholic ... no one in several generations had even attended a Catholic church.

I actually remember one instance when the great-aunts and my great-grandmother were all excited over my very odd accomplishment and asked me repeatedly to "... say it again."

I do not speak Dutch, nor even understand much of it, today. I have to wonder how could a child speak Dutch for reciting Hail Mary, but not truly speak the language in other ways. Some memory gene passed along? ... remnant from a former life?

  • 4 votes
Reply#13 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:08 PM EST
Polka14

All NDEs are complications of the brain when near death. Likely random images and memories.

  • 1 vote
Reply#14 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:45 PM EST
DarwinWasRight

NDEs can be explained scientifically... those that have experienced them and believe they are proof of an afterlife will remain unconvinced... and so the world turns...

    Reply#15 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 PM EST
    Al-316

    I have heard and read enough about this subject to keep an open mind. Naturally, I don't know the truth about NDE, but expect that I will someday.

    On this we agree:

    One thing is for certain though - we'll all get to find out the truth of the matter at some point.

    Thanks Grisham. This might be the best article explaining NDE, which I have read.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#16 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:35 PM EST
    Shebow

    My father at the end of his life experienced both NDE's and visits from long dead relatives. He would try to talk to his wife. She thought he was having hallucinations and treated him accordingly - running to the doctors for help, trying to bring him back to reality, etc. He began to confide in me instead. We did not have a good relationship, well, ever but he knew what my spiritual beliefs were and that I would support instead of question what he was seeing. It brought him a great deal of comfort to share his visits with my great Uncle Harry with someone who just accepted it. And if I hadn't simply listened and let it be so, I might not have heard what he had to say about the 3 NDE's he experienced. He told me that dying wasn't the choice he had to make. He said the crossing over was the unconscious, easy, just roll out of the body part. He said that staying in his body was the deliberate action - and one he chose to do 3 times because he loved his life and the people in it. Before he died, he told his wife he wasn't physically comfortable or capable anymore to stay in his body. He rolled out of it that night in his sleep.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#17 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:18 PM EST
    Lisafrequency

    I think NDEs may be a type of hallucination and i also think it may be a spiritual type event. These types of experiences have helped some people live their life with more purpose and gratitude.

    I have heard of NDEs that were not pleasant that also inspired people to live with more purpose.

    i know people are curious to know what they really are but i like the mystery and hope they remain unexplained.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#18 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:19 PM EST
    Santino42

    As you can see, science is trying to grapple with the phenomenon known as NDE. While the research doesn't seem to be conclusive either way, some scientists are convinced that NDE's have been explained by science.

    The crutch of scientists - always thinking that there science has got it all figured out ;).

    Researching and reading about NDEs gave me great comfort after I've lost loved ones. An extremely interesting journey that we may all take one day.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#19 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:10 PM EST
    WatcherInTheShadows

    I think that is one of the grey areas we may never explain to our satisfaction. It can and has, after all, been argued many ways, pro and con.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#20 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:03 PM EST
    ShelbyCourtland

    I had a NDE. I was rushed to the operating room. They put the gas mask over my face and told me to count backwards from 100. The last thing I remembered was counting to 98. When I woke up, a nurse was sitting in back of me. I heard the sounds of machines clicking and bleeping, etc. When the nurse saw that I was awake. She said to me, and I'll never forget these words. "We lost you there for awhile, but we brought you back. Your heart stopped beating and you stopped breathing."

    Now, I have no idea how long I was out, but I can honestly say that I saw no lights, no tunnels, no loved ones. I have no recollection of anything happening. It was like a dreamless sleep.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#21 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:32 PM EST
    samenslow

    My mother at age 50 was misdiagnosed with terminal cancer of the spine and given at most six months to live. She lived until 81. However, when people ask why she did not sue the doctor(s) who made the original diagnosis, she said it was the best thing that ever happened to me. The time I thought I was dying gave me time to think about what I had missed in life, what was really important to me, what I would do if I had a "do over." She got the chance, and her life changed in many small ways so that her life became her life. She enjoyed the last 30 years of her life much more than the first 50. It is amazing how we fill our lives with unnecessary garbage.

    • 5 votes
    #21.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:40 PM EST
    Reply
    G. H.

    I have read of and studied most Religions and haven't found one that feels *real* or right to me. Reincarnation, which I pretty much believe in and embrace, due to a dream I have had several times in my life at many different ages. It never changes, in the dream, I am five different people, in different centuries/times, even different sex (gender), but at the same time I know they are all me, and all are happening moments before death, so I know how I died in each lifetime. I am a very spiritual person, however, just not any particular religion. When I was almost strangled to death, I felt as though I left my body, but first, I saw all red, everywhere around me, it then turned black, (total loss of consciousness/breathing). What I remember most was my brain saying "Boy, is my Mom going to cry", and feeling sad about that. Nothing else though, and I came to being given chest compressions and smelling salts. Was a very strange experience.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#22 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:36 AM EST
    Jackie-2759125

    Grisham I truly believe NDE's are possible. I felt like I had one back in Nov 2002...a life changing experience. I wrote about it on my column last year, if your interested. When I was in the ER and going through it, I started to feel so cold and if I layed down and relaxed that I would "slip out" of my body. Feeling that sensation was very scary...If fought it.

    Part of me wonders if we "program" our mind for what we will see when we die and when we have a NDE, we see the program. It's our brains way of soothing us into our transition. This may explain why everyones experiences are so similiar/yet particular to us. The tunnel with the white light at the end, angels, being greeted by family/friends/pets.

    I also believe in the possibility of life after death - even if it's brief. You mentioned animals. On the day I found out my dog Blondie's ashes were ready for pickup, in the morning I woke up with a startle at the same time she normally woke me up each day and I "saw" her. She was absolutely glowing and beautiful. She looked at me and nodded like she would when she wanted attention...that was it. In the afternoon I got a call to come and claim her ashes.

    Very interesting topic and I bet a comforting one to explore as you deal with the loss of your Dad. Thank you for posting this.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#23 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:46 AM EST
    Jackie-2759125

    *clipped to Memoryvine

    • 3 votes
    #23.1 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:07 PM EST
    Shebow

    Jackie, I love your story about Blondie. We just lost the lovely dog who lived in our household about 6 weeks ago. She had been with my mother and her partner for about 12 years. The day we had to put her to sleep, I kept hearing her coming up behind me - the clicking toes on my floor and, especially, the sound of her collar tags jingling. It happened at least 3 times in the span of just over an hour. I got the idea that maybe she just wanted someone to know she'd arrived over there okay. I repeated that to both my mother and her partner. I haven't heard her little collar tags approaching me from behind again even though I'm still reminded of her constantly.

    • 2 votes
    #23.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:58 PM EST
    Reply
    samenslow

    Reichel-Dolmatoff, one of the father's of Colombian archaeology, wrote a book called Beyond the Milky Way: Hallucinatory Images of the Tukano Indians. The Tukano live in remote South-Central Colombia.

    He notes a different perception of reality than we generally hold. They do not separate "real" time from "dream" time, both are part of the same reality. Death has no great importance to them because they will see the lost relative or friend in their dreams. They also believe, like many Colombian peoples current and prehispanic, in the transmigration of souls, so you will return in about a month as something or another. In other words life and death are not separated into separate compartments. Everything flows together.

    It is said Pythagoras could remember all of his past lives. This ability has be ascribed to many others, but I know of none of these that could remember what happened while they were dead.

    This is an interesting subject, or maybe I am just part of the Adam's family.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#24 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:26 PM EST
    tzia62

    I'm convinced that I had one in 1980. And yes, it did change my life. It taught me not to take things for granted, and gave me some insight to some very long unanswered questions that were spot on.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#25 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:35 PM EST
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