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GRISHAM

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There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness. Dalai Lama
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Was Jesus Part of The 1%?

Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:04 PM EST
religion
By Grisham
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Traditionally, Jesus has been depicted as being poor. Having grown up going to Church, I know this is the mental picture that immediately comes to mind when I think of Jesus. I tend to think of him as a sort of ancient hippy who was more concerned with the poor than the rich – he seems to have quite a few Liberal, Socialist values.

As the GOP continues to try and harness Christianity for its own ends, the question has to be asked; was Jesus poor or was he in fact, one of the 1% of his day? It becomes even more relevant when you think about the state of the world today. America and even some parts of Canada have been gripped by protests decrying the oppression of the poor, the hoarding of wealth and the widening gap between the richest citizens (the 1%) and the rest of the citizens. You can easily find comments and articles by Christians who say that Jesus wouldn’t have approved of the greedy capitalistic system we have in place today.

But is that true or would Jesus in fact be part of the richest and most influential citizens of his day and age?

Treasurer

The Bible says that Judas Iscariot (the man credited for eventually betraying Jesus) was Jesus’ treasurer. One example of this can be found in the book of John:

Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. 29 For some [of them] thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy [those things] that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor. 30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.”

The Bible also seems to suggest that Judas was stealing from the treasury behind Jesus’ back. The interesting thing about this passage and Jesus apparently having a treasurer is that you don’t need a treasurer if you’re poor. Also, if Judas was stealing from the bag of coins, how did no one notice? Were there so many coins that skimming a few off the top wouldn’t be noticed?

Literacy

Whether Jesus was literate or not is hotly debated by theologians. Some maintain that the descriptions of Jesus reading and writing in the Bible are fictions and not based on true historical accounts. Others say they are true accounts and Jesus could read and write.

If Jesus could read and write, this is a possible indicator that Jesus was at least moderately wealthy. In Jesus’ day, very few people could read and write.

Carpenter

In the English Bible, the word ‘Tekton’ has been translated into the word ‘carpenter’. However, this may be a slight mistake because Tekton has the same root as ‘technology’ and ‘technical’ and some scholars believe Jesus may in fact have been something more than a mere wood worker. It’s possible that Jesus could have been a stonemason or builder, which wasn’t a bad trade to have. If true, this could mean that Joseph (his step-father) and Jesus were fairly wealthy.

Gifts at Birth

The Bible describes Jesus being born in a manger and three wise men (or Magi or Kings) come and give his parents gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. If this indeed happened (and many scholars disagree about the birth of Jesus because the Bible has conflicting accounts) then those gifts would have been a lucrative way to start out in life. Some claim that Jesus later used those gifts to travel and spread his message.

Royal Heritage

Jesus was said to be a descendant (not directly but through his step-father Joseph) of King David. According to Wiki:

The Bronze and Iron Age remains of the City of David, the original urban core of Jerusalem identified with the reigns of David and Solomon, were investigated extensively in the 1970s and 1980s under the direction of Yigal Shiloh of the Hebrew University, but failed to discover significant evidence of occupation during the 10th century BC,[57] In 2005, Eilat Mazar found a Large Stone Structure which she claimed was David's Palace, but the archaeology is contaminated and impossible to date accurately.[58][59] Finkelstein and Silberman feel the archaeological evidence from surface surveys indicates that Judah at the time of David was a small tribal kingdom, although both do accept that David and Solomon were likely historical figures in Judah about the 10th century BC. They describe the earliest tales of David as a "classical bandit tale".

Is it possible that some of Mary and Joseph’s wealth were leftovers from the House of David? The archeological and scriptural support for this is pretty weak but it does pose an interesting question.

Anointing and Last Supper

Also in John, Judas gets upset when Mary anoints Jesus’ feet with ointment that was worth about 300 pence:

Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s [son], which should betray him, 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. 7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. 8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

From what I can find, 300 pence at that time was quite a sum of money. It would equal about a year’s wages for the average person back then. How did Jesus come into possession of such an expensive ointment and could this be considered proof that Jesus wasn’t as poor as some make him out to be?

Also, the well-known last supper narrative seems to point towards Jesus and his disciples having enough coin to hold a feast.

Underwear Fiasco

The book of Matthew describes the soldiers gambling over Jesus’ undergarments. They must have been fine undergarments to be sure!

“And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.”

This begs the question of why the undergarments were valuable enough to gamble over and does this show that Jesus was wealthy enough to afford underwear fine enough to cause envy?

There are of course several passages in the Bible that refute the idea that Jesus was rich. Here are a few examples:

-Luke (6:20): "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."

-Matt 6:19-21: "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy andwhere thieves break in and steal; "but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

-Mark 10:25: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

As you can see, both sides can put forward a pretty good case for Jesus being wealthy or poor and his stance on the rich. Personally, I still view Jesus as a socialist rather than a rich person, but there is no denying the compelling arguments of the other side.

What do you think?

Was Jesus rich and on the side of the current 1% or was he poor and concerned more with the poor of this world than some would make him out to be? Would he be on the side of the OWS protesters or on the side of the rich corpocracy?

You decide.

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  • Public Discussion (47)
Grisham

I hope you enjoyed this piece. I think (and hope) it will bring some interesting responses from religious, non-religious, liberal, conservative, socialist and every other sort of ideologically centered person. As always, thanks for reading.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:07 PM EST
ryoushi12

Of course he is, his daddy owns EVERYTHING, literally.

  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:42 PM EST
King Dave

"Give your money to the poor." ~ television evangelist and multimillionaire Pat Robertson

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 10:47 PM EST
tweetheart44

I can't stand Pat Robertson. Most of the television evangelists have pulled the wool over their followers eyes.

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:46 AM EST
Anatoly-Rex

Jesus is not a figure that should be exploited by any political persuasion by projecting our values back onto him. He was not an adherent of Socialist, a Liberal, a Conservative, or any other political ideology because those didn't exist thousands of years ago. Arguing that he was any of those is like arguing the first wheel that was ever invented must have been a Goodyear because they share some similarities.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:52 AM EST
cowboygrandpa

If you asking if Jesus Christ was wealthy. The answer is no. He had no home of His own and He was supported by people of means who heard His message and knew He was and is the One.

If you asking if He was above all other people ?? Yes He was and is. He humbled Himself and came to earth and did not come with all the things that are His. He spoke this earth into being as He is The Word of God. He came and walked among the poor and needy-not just those who lack wealth, but those who lack love and compassion, because they posess material wealth, but have no lasting wealth- He experienced the sadness and joy we have on earth as well as the hunger and cold, heat, weariness, ... So we truly have One who intercedes with The Father for us, for He has been among us, and knows the hardships and travails we face. Having paid for us with His blood we are His when we come to Him and accept His Way. Being changed by Him, I know what I was, and I know how He has changed me.

He knew Judas Iscariot was a thief, isn't that a picture of so many in the church today who cry out they are holy, yet steal from Him for their own gain. He knew Judas would sell Him out for thirty pieces of silver fulfilling another prophecy.

As far as Him being from the Line of David. He was, who is David's Creator but God Himself ?? Did not God Create the lineage of David, did He also choose Mary who was of the lineage of David and a virgin ??

Jesus Returns as The KING of Kings and the 1% 's will howl with despair as they find themselves cast aside. Their wealth like their flesh useless against Him Who is The I AM that gave the message to Abraham, Moses, and all who He has communicated with as is His will.

He came humbly the first time and returns Nobly the second time.

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:54 AM EST
Grisham

Rex,

Do you think he was rich or not?

Jesus is not a figure that should be exploited by any political persuasion by projecting our values back onto him. He was not an adherent of Socialist, a Liberal, a Conservative, or any other political ideology because those didn't exist thousands of years ago.

I agree. It's not meant to be taken literally. Just something to ponder I thought would be kind of interesting.

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:55 AM EST
Andrew331978

As far as Him being from the Line of David. He was, who is David's Creator but God Himself ?? Did not God Create the lineage of David, did He also choose Mary who was of the lineage of David and a virgin ??

CG, you're being too literal. By your definition even I'm of the lineage of David because God created me and him.

What I was talking about was the idea of David being related to Jesus, as in a great great great great great great great, times as many times as it takes, grandpa to Jesus and that doesn't fly since according to the Bible the lineage was traced through the fathers and Joseph was not Jesus's biological father.

  • 3 votes
#1.7 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:19 AM EST
Moby's ManCave

Would he be on the side of the OWS protesters or on the side of the rich corpocracy?

OWS protestors… without a doubt. In fact, I think he would join them! :)

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:43 AM EST
Live and let live please

"Give your money to the poor." ~ television evangelist and multimillionaire Pat Robertson

When Pat Robertson says to give money to the poor, he really means give money to the church and we'll give it to the poor... after taking our cut of course.

  • 3 votes
#1.9 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:02 AM EST
Nicey-1026620

Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. 29 For some [of them] thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy [those things] that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor. 30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.”

You do if you are traveling with an entourage. It's just practical planning (which from scripture he appears to have approached things mostly in a smart manner).

And he had 12+ others with him.

The Bible also seems to suggest that Judas was stealing from the treasury behind Jesus’ back. The interesting thing about this passage and Jesus apparently having a treasurer is that you don’t need a treasurer if you’re poor. Also, if Judas was stealing from the bag of coins, how did no one notice? Were there so many coins that skimming a few off the top wouldn’t be noticed?

In those days there were a wide variety of coins/pieces of money in use from the Romans. Not every coin was a gold coin. You could have many coins of little worth.

If Jesus could read and write, this is a possible indicator that Jesus was at least moderately wealthy. In Jesus’ day, very few people could read and write.

Just going off bible accounts, he was self educated in those regards, often spending lots of time at the temple (which was basically the library of the day).

It’s possible that Jesus could have been a stonemason or builder, which wasn’t a bad trade to have. If true, this could mean that Joseph (his step-father) and Jesus were fairly wealthy.

Much like today, the Roman empire was infamouse for creating wealth and keeping it out of the hands of the hoi ploi. I personally don't see it, as it's not confirmed anywhere that Joseph ran a large business.

The Bible describes Jesus being born in a manger and three wise men (or Magi or Kings) come and give his parents gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

.....The actual bible account (original, not re-written, go get a king james original bible) is not like the story told at Christmas today.

Is it possible that some of Mary and Joseph’s wealth were leftovers from the House of David? The archeological and scriptural support for this is pretty weak but it does pose an interesting question.

Every account of Joseph and Mary seems to indicate that they traveled as people without means traveled, stayed in cities as poorer people did, and generally lived in a lifestyle that wouldn't suggest wealth.

Also in John, Judas gets upset when Mary anoints Jesus’ feet with ointment that was worth about 300 pence:

Believe it was not the groups ointment, but her ointment. Could be wrong, going off the top of my head there.

“And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.”

Well, that says garmets.

But also wasn't Jesus stripped down and dressed up to mock him?

I just think story wise there are many examples of him living a lifestyle less money.

  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:09 AM EST
J. W. Welch

Anatoly

You may want to reconsider whether there were no conservatives in Jesus' time.

Palestine was a volatile province and a pain in the ass for the Romans to govern. Rebellion was just a riot away as were the local legions who were ready to slice and dice without mercy all comers in order to put it down.

The local Hebrew magistrates and temple elders had a direct stake in maintaining a semblance of peace lest their applecart of privilege be upset by the rabble. As long as they were able to keep a lid on things, the Romans let them exercise a degree of authority.

Along comes Jesus who in no time is seen by the Hebrew elders as a threat to the status quo which in turn agitates the Romans who won't put up with much in the way of possible civil unrest and Jesus is doomed.

It might be safe to say that conservatives have been alive and well throughout history.

As for liberals I'd have to guess they were among the millions of slaves within the Empire.

    #1.11 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:05 PM EST
    cowboygrandpa

    For those who question the lineage of Jesus Christ. God spoke of it even in Genesis. Jesus Christ is spoken of as from her seed.

    Genesis 3:15

    15 And I will put enmity

    Between you and the woman,

    And between your seed and her Seed;

    He shall bruise your head,

    And you shall bruise His heel."

    God was telling satan what would happen.

    It did happen, and satan knows it.

    • 1 vote
    #1.12 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:14 PM EST
    Reply
    Andrew331978

    Jesus was said to be a descendant of King David.

    Point of contention.

    In ancient times, at least for Jews, the concept of being "of a House' implied lineage through the father, not the mother.

    According to the Bible, Joseph was of the House of David, however, since the Bible says that Joseph didn't impregnate Mary but God did, then Jesus has no genetic link to the House of David.

    Now as to the original question of the article. It is my opinion that while Jesus may have been born in somewhat of a privileged position, he wanted others to follow by example, so he might have just kept enough money to survive on but divested himself of most of it. In essence, he MIGHT have been a 1% and he made himself a 99% to set an example.

    There is a story told both in Matthew's and Luke's Gospels where a wealthy man comes across Jesus and asks him what he can do to get into heaven. Jesus gives him the usual party line about not coveting, not worshiping false idols, honoring mother and father, yadda, yadda, yadda and the wealthy man says that he has done all these things already so basically he's already screwed.

    So Jesus says, well, then how about you take all your wealth and give it to the poor? The rich guy turns around and walks off. He didn't like that option very much LOL. Jesus turns to his Apostles and says this..

    How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

    It's why I say the J-man was a pretty cool dude.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#2 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:31 PM EST
    Grisham

    According to the Bible, Joseph was of the House of David, however, since the Bible says that Joseph didn't impregnate Mary but God did, then Jesus has no genetic link to the House of David.

    Very true. It was more a step-father descendant thing. Poor choice of words on my part.

    It's why I say the J-man was a pretty cool dude.

    Yep. He seemed pretty cool.

    • 9 votes
    #2.1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:36 PM EST
    katrix

    So, I can vote up, but not comment. Another glitch ...

    Nice post, Andrew. There was no way Jesus fulfilled the lineage ... but that doesn't mean that if he existed, he wasn't a good man setting a great example to be passed on.

    Ripley, I think, had a comment about how Mary's family came from a lineage that was shunned. Dang. I need to go back and find that. Ripley, if you read this - it's not self promoting to link to what you said previously. It's perfect for this discussion.

    • 5 votes
    #2.2 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 10:04 PM EST
    Andrew331978

    Nice post, Andrew. There was no way Jesus fulfilled the lineage ... but that doesn't mean that if he existed, he wasn't a good man setting a great example to be passed on.

    Eggsactly kittycat. The original J-Man, not the farce the Church made up, was a pretty cool guy to have followed. My wife does follow him.

    • 3 votes
    #2.3 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 10:51 PM EST
    Big Cat-4416462

    Good article Grisham,

    I was in line with you at first, but after reading Andrews

    Now as to the original question of the article. It is my opinion that while Jesus may have been born in somewhat of a privileged position, he wanted others to follow by example, so he might have just kept enough money to survive on but divested himself of most of it. In essence, he MIGHT have been a 1% and he made himself a 99% to set an example.

    answer that I think is the same line but put a different spin. I think I would go with that. As you mentioned, if he really was a carpenter and maybe in a special field, then I am sure he was at least comfortable. Definitely middle class

    As for the undergarments, I would say they wouldn't have to be expensive silk and such. I am sure they (soldiers) were capitalists and preyed on they fact most people would pay dearly for a collectible for lack of a better term. Imagine what something like that would go for now... half the bidders would think they could get to heaven faster, and the other half would burn them to keep from DNA/carbon testing to prove he was real! LOL Just kidding, we all know Pat Robertson would claim them as his.

    Cat

    • 8 votes
    #2.4 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:05 AM EST
    Moby's ManCave

    ...he MIGHT have been a 1% and he made himself a 99% to set an example.

    Andrew, I am impressed by your post… most excellent comments. :)

    Grisham, awesome article (as usual) and great to see you again! I have a question for you. What if todays 1% lived a life like Jesus? How would things be different? Would they be better or worse? Would the 1% put the GOP and the religious-right in their place?

    • 3 votes
    #2.5 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:54 AM EST
    Andrew331978

    Andrew, I am impressed by your post… most excellent comments. :)

    Thank you sir!!

    • 2 votes
    #2.6 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:01 AM EST
    Grisham

    Good to see you too, Moby. I was wondering what had happened to ya. :)

    What if todays 1% lived a life like Jesus? How would things be different? Would they be better or worse? Would the 1% put the GOP and the religious-right in their place?

    I think a less materialistic society would be a good thing. If the Jesus of the Bible were around today, I don't think he'd be impressed with either political party or the materialistic, orgy-like greedy society we've built.

    • 4 votes
    #2.7 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:09 AM EST
    Moby's ManCave

    I think a less materialistic society would be a good thing. If the Jesus of the Bible were around today, I don't think he'd be impressed with either political party or the materialistic, orgy-like greedy society we've built.

    I agree… we focus more on what we have than who we are. Do our things define us, or do our actions define us? I think the 80's really brought us down a notch as far as greed and the "I'm gonna get mine" type attitude, IMO.

    I was wondering what had happened to ya.

    Working way too much. :)

    (Oh, and one more thing… I think the Jesus would humiliate the religious-right… just an opinion)

    • 3 votes
    #2.8 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:15 AM EST
    Grisham

    I agree… we focus more on what we have then who we are. I think the 80's really brought us down a notch as far as greed and the "I'm gonna get mine" type attitude, IMO.

    On the bright side, we got some cool music from the 80's. LOL

    I'm glad to see you back. Screw work. Come Vine!

    • 3 votes
    #2.9 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:17 AM EST
    Andrew331978

    (Oh, and one more thing… I think the Jesus would humiliate the religious-right… just an opinion)

    Oh that's for sure. He'd be doing the modern version of throwing the merchants out of the temple. :)

    • 3 votes
    #2.10 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:22 AM EST
    Moby's ManCave

    On the bright side, we got some cool music from the 80's… Screw work. Come Vine!

    LMAO! No kidding! ;-)

    • 3 votes
    #2.11 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:28 AM EST
    Reply
    CommisarCain

    As the GOP continues to try and harness Christianity for its own ends, the question has to be asked; was Jesus poor or was he in fact, one of the 1% of his day?

    Jesus was a definitely not rich.

    But is that true or would Jesus in fact be part of the richest and most influential citizens of his day and age?

    He got crucified, which pretty much rules out the possibility of Him having influence.

    Is it possible that some of Mary and Joseph’s wealth were leftovers from the House of David? The archeological and scriptural support for this is pretty weak but it does pose an interesting question.

    Having royal blood does not mean that you have money.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#3 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 10:56 PM EST
    TheyreAllCrooks

    Was Jesus Part of The 1%?

    YES!
    I was in church Sunday and I could swear right after I put $100 bucks in the collection plate (for the poor and less fortunate) that preacher dude in the fancy robe, holding an oversized Bible, with super large print said
    - "Jesus is The ONE"!

    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 11:29 PM EST
    Moby's ManCave

    LOL… :)

    • 2 votes
    #4.1 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:56 AM EST
    Reply
    bestquest

    Financial wealth certainly does not fit the message of Christ. Sufficient food, shelter and clothing do fit. Extra should be shared with the elderly, poor and ill.

    If you have lived your life with this philosophy during the past 20 centuries, you were OK.

    This century, are you crazy?

      Reply#5 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 11:33 PM EST
      samenslow

      It is quite possible that Jesus as a carpenter has no relationship to the type of work he did. From very ancient times in Egypt architects and those involved in building had a rather mystical status. They had the ability, along with metallurgists, to transform things. Of these men served as visors or as the eyes or hands of the ruler. Ptah, the Egyptian god, and Hermes represent their godly manifestations. This would be rather like Masons today who use the symbolism of the building trades.

      In the Georgia State Museum there is the genealogy of the House of David. That is because the Batrig Royal family claimed to be descendants of the House of David through King David's sister. This was confirmed by the Emperor in Constantinople. Ancient Georgia (often called Iberia) has a rather strange history in Jerusalem.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#6 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:31 AM EST
      Moby's ManCave

      ...As the GOP continues to try and harness Christianity…

      It has become obvious, at least to me, that the GOP (excluding Ron Paul) will harness anything they can to win votes. They are no closer to "Christianity" than my dog… but my dog will go to heaven, not so sure about the GOP! ;)

      • 3 votes
      Reply#7 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:45 AM EST
      Andrew331978

      excluding Ron Paul

      Yeah well he's no saint either. Phillipp Kayser a white supremacist reverend endorses him and the frakker wants to extend the death penalty to gays.

      • 1 vote
      #7.1 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:33 AM EST
      DonVito

      "All dogs go to heaven!" They are more worthy than humans!!!

        #7.2 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:16 AM EST
        Reply
        Kara Shalee

        Wow, Grisham, what a piece of work here. Fabulous research. I don't know the answer. Except for the stories, and "they say" that Jesus hung out with the poor and outcasts of society, therefore I would say that he was a socialist.

        The GOP highjacking Jesus and pretending to be Evangelicals is disgusting.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#8 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:17 AM EST
        Grisham

        Thanks, Kara. :)

        I agree that using religion to get votes is a disgusting practice.

        • 1 vote
        #8.1 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:31 AM EST
        Kara Shalee

        And they never fail to use that "trump card". What is confounding, is WHY so many fall for it.........I don't get it.

          #8.2 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:29 PM EST
          Reply
          Live and let live please

          Jesus was a champion of the poor, the downtrodden, the unfortunate. It sad to see so many people who claim to be his followers showing such contempt for the poor, claiming that they "won't lift a finger to help themselves." Really? The poor are somehow lazy? That's why they are poor? Was Jesus lazy? Was he work shy? Because he certainly wasn't rich...

          Sorry, but if you are going to claim to be a Christian, you might want to take another look at what your savior stood for. What I love is how many of the fundamentalist Christians that think evolution is a myth are so gung-ho about social darwinism. Seems a bit ironic to me... I bet if Jesus saw how many right wing Christians treat the poor today, how they look down on those of differing religious belief, he would be more reminded of the romans than his original followers... Poor guy... his message has been lost in a sea of intolerance and selfishness.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#9 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:08 AM EST
          Kara Shalee

          Totally agree.

            #9.1 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:16 AM EST
            Reply
            samenslow

            Another point in favor of Jesus being a man of means. His brother James became High Priest of the Temple of Jerusalem. This position was not open to just anyone. It is also quite possible that Jesus was indeed pretender to the throne.

            I do not understand the importance some attach to the issue except to try to reconstruct an historic Jesus. It in no way affects His teachings.

            It seems maybe we sometimes want to protect our traditional beliefs even if it contradicts the truth.

              Reply#10 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:09 AM EST
              KElane

              The Bible describes Jesus being born in a manger and three wise men (or Magi or Kings) come and give his parents gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

              The Magi did not bring gifts to the newborn but to a toddler who then lived in a house, not a manger. The Magi [who were not numbered] and the birth of Christ story can be found in Matthew chapter two. Verse 11 says that the Magi went into the house and presented the gifts to the child. Notice, too, that age Jesus could have been when Herod 'carefully ascertained from the time from the Magi' of about two-years old--verse 16.

              Jesus was said to be a descendant (not directly but through his step-father Joseph) of King David.

              Another misconception but correct [in a way] There are two written genealogies. The one you have here with Joseph, Jesus' stepfather, and the one in Luke chapter 3, which is Mary's. Jesus had to be born under the line of David. The two genealogies change just after David with Solomon and Nathan [both children from Bath-sheba]. This was a solid testimony that Jesus came through the line of David with both parents having David in their linage.

              Were they poor? Oh yeah. If you notice in Luke 2:22-24 that Mary offered up two birds for the purification. This was allowed when the parents were poor. See Leviticus 12:8. The Magi's gifts might have benefited them for a time, but according to Isaiah 53:1, 2, Jesus would have no stately form or any splendor that the rich or anyone else would notice him.

              • 3 votes
              Reply#11 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:21 AM EST
              Shub Tnediserp Remrof

              Well he sure as hell wouldn't act like the pope all couped up in his pen house secluded from his followers. In man's wealther today or of back then no, but of the wealth of knowledge and holyness yes he would be considered part of the 1%

              • 1 vote
              Reply#12 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:07 AM EST
              KElane

              Well he sure as hell wouldn't act like the pope all couped up in his pen house secluded from his followers.

              Never could understand the Pope thingee....

              But, I was speaking about the actual article. There were certain things that are commonly mistaken. Such as the Wise men at the manger--that there were three of them, and the two genealogies. Jesus was by far rich....

                Reply#13 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:06 PM EST
                MinnieApolis

                First of all, even if Jesus was one of the 1% at the time, that does not negate his genuine concern for the poor and dispossessed -- and occupied. Buddha was born into a wealthy family, too, and walked away from a life of ease.

                Next, there are several sources that state that Joseph of Arimathea was not just a wealthy follower, but mother Mary's brother or uncle. He was a tin merchant, a very good trade at that time -- he imported tin from the mines of Cornwall to the eastern Mediterranean. The chemical fingerprint of Cornish tin has been detected in bronzes of the era found in modern Israel/ancient Judea and Canaan, etc. So Uncle Joseph was pretty well-to-do.

                We can also deduce that J of A was a relative because he asked for permission to bury the body -- (from the BBC article): "the tradition that the senior male relative of a crucified person was obliged to deal with the body. Jesus' father was no longer around, so if Joseph of Arimathea did volunteer for the task, that suggests that he must have been related to Jesus in some important way."

                Then there are some who believe that his major supporter, Mary Magdalene, was extremely wealthy, or that she was even the granddaughter of royalty. It was she who bought the oil to anoint him with, and she (along with a group of wealthy friends and supporters) who subsidized Jesus' travels and preaching tour.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#14 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:20 AM EST
                Andrew331978

                Then there are some who believe that his major supporter, Mary Magdalene, was extremely wealthy, or that she was even the granddaughter of royalty. It was she who bought the oil to anoint him with, and she (along with a group of wealthy friends and supporters) who subsidized Jesus' travels and preaching tour.

                Not to mention being his wife.

                • 1 vote
                #14.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:00 PM EST
                bestquest

                if jesus had a wife, yes, it was mary magdalene. Efforts through the centuries to tarnish her reputation were and are wrong.

                I hate it when honorable people are castigated. And the real bad egg criminals are exalted as heroes.

                • 2 votes
                #14.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:04 PM EST
                KElane

                There are theories, thoughts and opinions. Personally, I'll stick with the scriptures. [see comment 11]

                  #14.3 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:43 PM EST
                  Kara Shalee

                  Thanks, Minnie, for your lessons here. You seem to really know your stuff.

                  bestquest,

                  if jesus had a wife, yes, it was mary magdalene. Efforts through the centuries to tarnish her reputation were and are wrong.

                  I hate it when honorable people are castigated. And the real bad egg criminals are exalted as heroes.

                  Wow you hit the nail on the head here. In ways that you might not be aware of. Ever heard of "The Magdalens" of Ireland? Completely shocking, and supportive of your insightful remarks.

                  • 1 vote
                  #14.4 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:31 PM EST
                  Reply
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